I'm in the process of building an all Spike's rifle that I may eventually carry with me on LE patrol (I currently have another "Pony" M4 on patrol with me). I am considering which upper to get. I understand that if I may get into a firefight with a rifle, a heavier barrel is better. I am interested in the Spike's lightweight LE upper, though (any weight savings going through a tactical carbine course is always appreciated). I do understand that an M4 isn't exactly an HBar, but it is heavier than a lightweight...

Any thoughts on a lightweight vs M4 barrel on a rifle that I may (hopefully not) one day need to go into harm's way with? All things being equal, what are the weight savings of a lightweight barrel vs. an M4?

Personally, my current "go-to" rifle is a 20" HBAR, and I'd recommend you go with the heavier barrel. The weight difference is not all that much, and if you think an M4 profile upper is too heavy to carry, go to the gym.



My $0.02.

what kind of "firefight" are you thinking of? i can't imagine a fight in a non-combat event that would last more than a few minutes or less, especially in an LE engagement.

how many mags do you expect to expend? if you're expecting long drawn out gunfights or going into a battle with enemy forces where lots of ammo is exchanged...then the medium/heavy barrel.

in most LE type engagements I'd say don't worry about the barrel...worry about stopping the threat and surviving.

the M4 profile carbines are designed with CQB in mind and are capable of dispensing large amounts of ammo in short periods of time.

unless you plan on prolonged rapid firing, i wouldn't worry about it.

JMO...

My duty carbine is a spikes 14 1/2" light weight.
I can't really imagine going through hundreds of rounds at a time while on duty.
My basic duty load out is Hornady TAP 55 grain (department mandated 55 grain).
I carry one 20 round magazine in the gun and two 30 rounders on a tac vets. I also carry three more 30 rounders of 55 grain FMJ on the vest for a total 5 magazines available.

The reason for a 20 rounder in the gun is I can go prone or shoot across the hood easily if needed.

I love the light weight profile and now have three of them.

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None of my rifles have a barrel profile thicker then government profile - my build from Spikes was specifically made to be lightweight, it uses a 14.5" pencil barrel with a SAR rail for extra weight savings. The center of gravity of an AR is right at the magwell, and the more weight you put forward of it, the more you shift the weight forward so the perceived weight is greater. When you've got cool guy stuff like a full length rail system, light and laser the ounces up front add up quickly. Ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain. In my opinion go to the gym is a lame saying, I do PT six days a week and as someone who carries a rifle for a living (11B Infantryman), I'd still rather have a lighter weapon.

One thing to consider is the M16 had a pencil profiled barrel and went full auto; soldiers in Vietnam used the happy switch quite a bit and didn't have problems with the barrel. In fact, one of the greatest praising points the M16 got was it's extremely light weight thanks to that barrel.

As for the 20 rounder vs 30 rounder, I prefer the 30 rounder to go prone. I learned at Squad Designated Marksman school to use the magazine as a support. I was taught for years and years that you'll have a malfunction if you do, but when I went to SDM they had us shoot hundreds of rounds a day with the magazine on the ground supporting the weapon, and I've been firing like that ever since without any mechanical problems.

The new guy's opinion:

Although being a P.O.G, I'd have to second docbach's opinion, depending your equipment load, and terrain, you'll want your important gear as light as possible. Example being if you're SWAT, consider the environment that you'll be working in (I.E. Urban Ops), means that stair cases will probably be a possibility, along with plates and Kevlar, all that will tire you out sooner or later and get you breathing hard, that in turn reflects your stamina (breathing hard exhausting you faster), and as you get tired, those few extra ounces on that barrel and equipment will make you wish you didn't bring it, IF you carry them all long enough. Even if you aren't working urban environments, and you're say border patrol, there's no such thing as flat terrain everywhere (unless you're in Florida?). As for the last part, 30 rounders are better IMHO,that's 10 more rounds per mag you carry, and if you lay just the barrel on an obstacle and viola an improvised rifle support! plus you give off less of a silhouette/target outline for people to target you with (albeit it'll be just your head sticking out). To answer the OP's question, I haven't exactly been in the position to weigh the barrels, so I'd say a few ounces, which goes back to the first few sentences, if you're being physically active when things go bad and start sucking, those few ounces start feeling like pounds.

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A friend has a spikes 14.7 upper with the pencil barrel. It's worlds lighter than my Smith & Wesson. Even when I take off my optic and flashlight it's a good 1.5 pounds lighter. Although, I have to say I prefer it a little heavier. The recoil is a little noticable with such a light rifle. Would I like to carry around my M&P15 on a sling all day? Hell No. I'd much rather go for the spikes.

It's up to you for what you are using it for, and why you prefer.

do you notice a difference POI when the barrel is rested on something ?I read an article saying it greatly changes the POI if the free float barrel is resting on or held by the Op

If you barrel sits on the rest, it can alter POI on a free float rifle. You should never hold your barrel, nor should you place the barrel directly on a rest or platform if it is free float.

This why most free floaters get the longest rail they think they will need, so they can rest on the rail or have a bipod out farther.

Sent from my HTC Evo

Good to know.

I have a Spikes LW with vortex perm installed.....ran about 150rds through it no problems at all....I highly doubt as an LE your gonna need to fire more than 150rds or even have that much ammo on hand unless your SWAT. just my $.02

My theory is that if your going to be shooting a "small" 223....why do you want a heavy rifle to lug around...if im going 10+lbs im shooting a .308 of some sort.